A person named “Shakra” posted this comment on StevePavlina.org today. I think it’s worth reading:
I got myself banned from stevepavlina.com today… for posting the following:
Sorry Steve.. I have to call BS on this..
I dont believe marriage isnt necessarily the pinnacle of human relationships.
In my personal opinion, RESPECT and LOVE is the highest pinnacle of ALL human relationships.
With mutual respect and love, a relationship can flourish. Without it, the relationship will wither and die..
In my opinion, if my partner was an internet “celebrity” I certainly would not want the ins and outs of our relationship demise published on the internet for all to see, comment upon etc. Especially if the primary reasons where that a) I dont eat raw food and b) I dont want to participate in sadomasochistic sexual situations…
You are appearing to me as a polarized darkworker.
What I see is a man who has made the decision to explore polyamory regardless of the effect it will have (and has had) on his family.
Perhaps Steve will realise this when his kids friends start coming across this information all over the internet in years to come.
Steve, I belive that Erin is and was deserving of a lot more respect. She let you go and “play” with your new chicks… and still she offers you full support…
I can guarantee that you have damaged Erin as part of this process… I feel her holding back in her posts. She wants to tell you, but is afraid of how you will react… YOU BROKE HER HEART. SHE IS STILL SUFFERING..
vBulletin Message
You have been banned for the following reason:
personal attack
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
My personal opinion is that Erin is unhappy and wanted to stay in a monogamous relationship with Steve, but he did not want this. While this is just muckraking, she did write this post on her blog on Nov. 8, 2010, where she said this:
The First Three Months
The first three months after we separated were really tough for me. I was sick when we decided to divorce and I didn’t actually get better for three months. The stress of separation along with the stress of moving, and the adjustment to single life obviously took its toll on me. One thing that kept me going was that I had just signed up for my CERT class (Community Emergency Response Team) and was so excited to be taking that class that it kept me from slipping into fear or depression. My friends and family rallied around me and helped me immeasurably. I felt supported and loved by my friends, and I’m positive they made a huge difference in how I adjusted to the loss of my marriage.The first three months I spent many a night lying in bed with tears rolling down my face. I’m a very emotional person, and I was feeling so many different emotions like fear, sadness, anxiety and loneliness. For a couple of weeks I had a lot of trouble sleeping. My friend Vicki helped me see that I was grieving the loss of what I thought my life was going to be and that I needed to begin to see the new possibilities that life offered. Metaphorically, I was looking longingly at the path Steve and I had been on with all its possibilities and love, instead of looking with power and hope ahead on the path I was now on. Another friend, Todd, spent countless hours on the phone with me, just listening to my thoughts and fears and desires. He’s the most amazing listener ever. And my other friend, Dana, kept encouraging and empowering me and not letting me wallow. He helped me see my own greatness, which gave me a lot of confidence in myself.
While Erin goes on to say that she took control of her life and her emotions after the first three months, I still think it’s sad and their separation was non-mutual. In my opinion, Steve’s divorce is contrary to the spirit of personal growth.
thanks for sharing my post…
I hadn’t visited the Pavlina forums for quite some time until yesterday when I discovered the whole “polyamory” topic of discussion and the seperation blogs and responses. I have been doing lots of catchup reading over the past 24 hours.
I read a huge number of posts and my deep feeling was that everything is not “OK” with Erin.
There are not many people here on earth who WOULD feel totally ok with their husband running off to have sex with other women. I believe he should have kept the BDSM stuff to himself… where it belongs.
Richard.. can you please remove my IP Address and proxy info!! I’m at work… I really dont want to get into trouble.
Okay, I think I know where you work now. It makes sense, so I trust you are not lying. I removed that information.
Definitely, I think he took the easy way out. It’s harder to stay committed to your marriage even when the flame has gone out — instead he split up his family and will be less involved with his children now. I know he lives near Erin, but he has already said that he is seeing them less and wants to take them on vacations across the world without Erin, and Erin said on her blog she is okay with that… but I do not know if she is holding back.
I totally agree that she’s holding out on her true feelings…. she obviously doesn’t feel compelled in the same was as Steve to share intimate information that may hurt someone.
It’s hard not to see that Steve has bee photographed around the place with various younger and much slimmer women than Erin.
Then there’s the new fascination with domination and submission. I believe that this sort of stuff should not be public consumption if it could be potentially hurtful to your family… but Steve just let’s it flow like a tsunami, not giving a second’s thought to what his daughter will have to deal with as she gets older and realises that Daddy left Mommy to go and screw around with Vegas showgirls and call girls.
I think Steve read this: http://www.rsdnation.com/node/138464
- “TheRealScarFace” at 2009-10-31
hilarious !! related to this topic… with photos!!
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/10/27/megablogger-steve-pavlina-facing-divorce-annihilation/
Yeah, I saw that a year ago… you can tell Steve was bored with his wife.
Here are some fallacies in Pavlina’s self-proclaimed famous article “Do It Now” where he claims to graduate in 3 semesters with 2 degrees and advises other people to do risky things like overload their credits to 3-4 times the average courseload and work a full-time job while doing it:
- Pavlina claims he has lots and lots of AP credits in one of his articles. These are basically college credits received in high school. With the number he had, most people can graduate in 2 years or less.
- He went to college for a year at UC Berkeley and earned one year of credit. This further reduced his workload.
- He went to a school that accepts CONVICTED FELONS. It obviously wasn’t very rigorous or hard!
- His degrees were in computer science and math. They have the same requirements mostly. If you’re doing computer science, you don’t need to many extra credits to get a degree in math.
- His degree was in computer science and he himself claims to have been programming since the age of 10! Obviously it wasn’t hard for him when he was competing in classes against other convicted felons who were new to programming computers.
- He provides absolutely NO PROOF.
- And much more.
Steve Pavlina is a sorry excuse for a human being and it’s really a shame that some people followed the above advice..
Regarding his life of crime… Steve reminds me of a lot of rappers. Needs a bit of “street cred” for people to listen to what he’s saying, even if it’s not true.
From everything I have seen, he’s not open to criticism in any way or even hearing opposing views. For example, on his Facebook page, he asks people who follow a religion to unsubscribe. How is that “openness”?
I’m sure Erin is not ok with personal life and the personal lives of her children being dragged through the mud in the name of Steve’s mid-life crisis. What mother/wife would be?
The problem is she doesn’t have the balls to stand up for herself!
Why?
1. She’s given Steve all her power for years.
2. Steve is responsible for her financial well-being. ALL of her web traffic (and business) is because of him. World famous psychic? Hardly.
The good news for Erin is that the law is on her side, thanks to all the evidence Steve has given her on a silver platter. If she can grow some balls, she’ll get enough money to get back on her feet, if she so chooses.
I have faith in her. The passive-aggressive comments from her last post are a good sign that she is moving forward in the situation. Hopefully she’ll come back with even more power in the future.
I think Steve said he is paying child support in a blog post, so at least Erin is receiving compensation. However, he did stop linking to erinpavlina.com in the masthead.
The AP credits issue is a big oversight, because it means he may have only taken 30 credits a semester instead of 40, which is not extraordinary if you are intelligent, disciplined, and motivated.
The whole opening of his book is about how he became a felon and then reformed and got a 4-year degree in 1.5 years… he should provide proof. A copy of his transcript would be nice, and he could post it on his blog and edit out the personal info.
Definitely, but I can understand this because he gets a large amount of feedback. You aren’t going to convince a Christian to become an atheist without spending an ordinate amount of time talking one-and-one, which is not worth it for anyone besides family.
I’m glad that this website exists.
I’m a member of the Pavlina board under another name, and I’ve noticed a severe drop in quality.
It seems as if the board has become Steve’s personal soapbox instead of any kind of personal development forum (and what is with him changing his name to “Savage”?!). He’s the only one allowed to have an opinion, and we’re supposed to just agree with him like a bunch of nodding heads. He has all the earmarks of a cult leader without the “cult” part – because obviously you can just leave. People pile praise upon him when he does things that are irresponsible and morally reprehensible, and they’d probably not pile the same praise upon some weirdo they met in the store who announced he was going to do the same thing.
I’m convinced he’s a clinical narcissist.
I was an extremely active user and a presence on the board to a small degree.
I’ve backed off of the boards quietly (just stopped posting, mostly) instead of getting nasty, because there seemed no point to the latter. A few of my friends are pretty brainwashed by Steve IMO, and idolize the man, and I prefer to leave well enough alone and let them come to their own conclusions.
Thank you for pointing this out.
I’m on Erin’s side of this. And in fact – I am FB friends with Erin and not with Steve.
Something that absolutely galls me, that I see a lot… is that Erin’s name is being dragged through the mud even by Steve’s detractors.
This is what happens when you are or have been married to a narcissist.
The very best thing that could ever happen to her is if she were able to dissociate herself from this man, somehow, but I don’t know how that will happen.
I’m not at all convinced Steve’s all that concerned with the children, except as an extension of himself. I know many, many involved, loving fathers and they mention their children in their FB status updates and in their blogs. Steve hardly ever mentions his children’s existence and I’d be hard pressed to even know he had any if I’d only just started reading. His family is a mere afterthought.
Ask me how I know all of this… since obviously I’m not at all acquainted with Steve, personally. Known too many narcissists in my time.
If he was going to get a divorce anyway, he could’ve at least handled it with a bit more class and tact and kept all of the bloody sordid details out of the public eye.
Something else I want to add.
People drag Erin’s looks into this equation quite a bit, but I want to add that being in a depressing relationship doesn’t do much for a person’s looks. You tend to let yourself go.
I’ve compared Erin’s pictures, before and after the divorce.
In her “before” pics, she looks sad. They do NOT look like a happy couple.
In her “after” pics, she looks much happier and sometimes even seems to glow. She has more spark and liveliness.
I think the bloody sordid details gets him more web traffic… and that’s what he wants, right?
I’ve read Sam Vaknin’s writing on narcissism, and I do remember him saying that the spouse or significant other of the narcissist gets dragged through the mud worse than the narcissist himself. You have some good points. Steve rarely talks about his children unless he wants to make a point about personal development or about himself.
Yeah, I don’t get why he changed his name on his forums… “Steve Pavlina” was much better. I guess he wants to sound cool?
Well, Erin isn’t the most attractive woman, but Steve said in his book that she taught him how to love… and then a few months later he divorced her. So I guess he just doesn’t care. Anyway, I see the appeal of polyamorous relationships, but if you’re in a monogamous marriage already, giving your spouse the choice between divorce and polyamory isn’t really fair, especially since Steve would get more relationships than Erin because of his popularity.
Well, it would fit the general backslide in maturity we’ve otherwise witnessed.
You know, maybe this is my feeling as a woman – but I hate that Erin’s attractiveness gets brought up in this equation at all.
And it always seems to.
Well, it gets brought up because Steve divorced her to screw other chicks.
That makes sense.
I’m just amazed at how Erin seems to be made out to be the Bad Guy in a lot of this – but that’s how it works with narcissists, quite frequently.
Yeah, and narcissists are good at playing to your sympathies so they always win…
I found Steve’s blog in 2006, and I immediately got hooked on his articles… Then I started noticing more and more this narcissism of his and some snake-oil elements. What was particularly funny when he in the comments said something like “the rule of thumb-don’t listen to dieting advice from a fat person” referring to the Atkins diet. Yet his wife who proposes vegan diet is, well…fat.
I know it’s late now to say that I knew he will dump Erin back then, even though at that time he was speaking in superlatives about their relationship. Here is the theory I thought to myself that seems to have shown to be true:
He was a nerd. He never was popular in school, or with girls. He wasn’t much tough either. You can see how he overcompensates with the story of him being badass and ending up in jail. First he says how he is so embarrassed to share this, and then he can’t stop writing about his cool thefts, a.k.a. Robin Hood chocolate giving actions and eventually grand theft. Like, they screwed in court, so he wasn’t convicted for grand theft. This story is carefully constructed, so that he sounds cool and there is no proof that this actually ever happened. But you can’t have a self-help blog without a cool story about hard beginnings followed with fantastic transformation because of personal development. Brian Tracy, Tony Robbins, you name it. Every guru has it.
So he met Erin and he hooked up with her. She was cool and safe for not so skillful and attractive Steve. She wasn’t attractive either, but he couldn’t find anything better anyway. They started a family, he was puzzle game developer, she also worked, they got kids… And it all would probably have stayed that way forever, if one crucial thing didn’t happened.
He started a right project at the right time – his blog. It became huge financial success. But also it became huge social success. He became guru with huge readership. His fantastic articles make emotional impact. A lot of women read his blog. When they come to his blog, they don’t see nerdy Steve. They see alpha male Steve, where people praise him, flatter him, interview him…plus he likes to share how much money he earns. Suddenly he starts getting attention from lots of girls, many of them attractive.
His self-confidence skyrocketed. You can see the difference between his earlier writings and later ones. His complexes came to surface. Now he is finally someone, and he will squeeze the maximum from it. He went overboard with this – hence the narcissism.
But now there is a problem. On one side he is married to not so attractive women plus they’ve been together for years. On the other side, there are offers from fresh, attractive “new age” chicks he never would have access to if it weren’t for his blog.
The other problem is that he already wrote about relationships and his fantabulous marriage with his even more fantastic wife. Anthony Robbins done the same thing, when he was on Larry King saying how he and his wife are meant to be together, for the rest of their lives, yada, yada, yada…while promoting his relationship program. .. Yup, he got divorced also…
So Steve can’t say now: “Screw all that, I want to fuck other chicks!” can he? So he’s done what he do the best. He gradually rationalized his way till he’s got what he wanted to. Polyamory, openness, exploration, he has too much love in him to give, yada, yada, yada…divorce!
The bottom line – he presented himself as some spiritual and moral superior being – but he followed his biological urges and human nature like the rest of us, he only wrote the shitload to justify his actions. He is nothing different than the next guy who dumps his “boring” wife for something fresh.
Important lesson:
We idealize too much some people, trying to live-up to often unrealistic morals they display in public – yet they actually are not much different than we are, it’s all marketing and PR.
Ps- sorry if there is some confusion and bad grammar in my sentences, English is not my native language…
“So Steve can’t say now: “Screw all that, I want to fuck other chicks!” can he?” — Actually, he could, but he chose not to, hopefully out of respect for his ex-wife. Your comment is really good and I sympathize with Mr. Pavlina, but I really think he should be more honest about his human nature with his readership. Everyone finds young, thin women more attractive than middle-aged, overweight women.